What follows is a look from 30,000’ and a close up look to see how this affects individuals. Then it’s how the individuals form a collective that in turn affects the bigger picture, back and forth “from both sides now.”
I want to like this piece, but I’m hesitating. I’m a semi-retired 33 year public school educator. A couple of questions that surface for me, Gary: 1. Were you/are you a teacher who was charged with the well-being of children, year after year after year? 2. Are you laying blame solely on “the educational system?” Your one sentence makes an attempt to widen the net of responsibility: “It is not only about going to school…” but the second part does lay blame at school house doors: “…although schools have been one of the primary transmitters of culture.” The educational system is exactly that, a system of individuals including teachers, secretaries, the Dept. of Education, Board members, mayors, governors, unions, parents, and kids all in relationship with curriculum, state and local policies, community values, educational standards, absenteeism, health conditions (nutrition, mental health), societal ills (including poverty, racism, bullying), and the whims of the daily obstacles and challenges faced by us all as we get up and get ready to go to school. To lay blame on “the educational system,” is too often code for “blame the teachers.” And we simply cannot do that. When I’m confronted with such narrow viewpoints, I have taken it as a personal obligation to champion the profession I gave my life to, and all those with whom I was privileged to work and who I saw, every day, do heroic things for children in the face of very daunting and daily challenges including the apathy of parents, politicians, and society at large. I do not disagree with your central premise of how we, as a society, have gotten here—I challenge the conclusion that “education,” schools, are the cause. The competition schools face with absentee parenting, the lack of community groups/organizations that used to play a larger role in the raising of our kids (eg churches), the lack of funding, hungry kids, trauma-impacted learners, the malevolent and ubiquitous presence of technology/social media has relegated schools as a much less influential transmitter of societal values. An “educated” person is so much more than what they’ve taken away from all the classrooms they’ve spent time in. Schools are not “dismal failures.” That characterization is better said for where we, as a society, place our values—as long as a community spends billions to build an NFL football stadium, while the elementary school just down the way has to hold fundraisers for basic supplies (and while we debate whether to offer our children a free breakfast), we all, educated and under-educated, need to get to a place where we ask ourselves: “why?”
Thank you, Kert, for your thoughtful response and your good questions. I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you say here, especially the challenges that schools, teachers, administrators, boards and communities face. We could probably have a good conversation about our respective experiences and observations. We might reach different conclusions, maybe not, in the end. I admire and respect your service and dedication to your profession. We need hundreds more like you. I applaud your questioning a society's values and priorities when you see where the billions go to make more billions for owners and players. It's one reason I included the lop-sided economy that is not favoring the underserved.
It's not so much the schools that are at fault but rather the systems that have not changed or schools that have not changed in order to ensure that kids are being served well in their learning experiences and that high standards (not tests) are met. Why would anyone lower standards? Did you ever see Ken Robinson's video, "Changing the Paradigm"? Here it is for your reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
And for now, this: I spent/invested over 60 years in schools of every kind, as a teacher, as an admininstrator, as a board member, as a parent and grandparent and, like you and many others, I spent years preparing to do that when I was a student - actually for me, 24 years in schools from K-12 and beyond. Teachers for me are heros and heroines, some of the best people I have known in a long, challenging, satisfying and rewarding career. I hired some great ones and made a few mistakes too. I helped start several new schools, one public school and two independent schools. And I advised others to redesign their schools already in existence. As you know, it was more than a job, it was a calling. It was a vocation, not an occupation and we could talk more on that another time. Let me say thanks again, Kert, for all that you gave and for what you continue to give.
Thank you Gary for taking my response completely in the spirit in which it was offered! And I completely agree that we would both enjoy a prolonged conversation about this over coffee, for sure, if not a very leisurely dinner. I’m also grateful you didn’t infer my passion to be an ad hominem attack on you. This is another of your traits of the uneducated: “that when one is faced with critical feedback, it is always taken personally,” when, in fact, that may never had been intended. The un(der)-educated are also unskillful in having objective debate on worthy issues. I am grateful for you and your wisdom—and I have learned from you both in the past and with this post too. Someone once said, “Education is what you start getting when you are finally finished with school.” I am led to believe this applies strongly to you, as it does strongly to me. Ultimately, WE each are responsible for the educations we get (seek, have, are given, etc). Not even the best teacher can teach when the student refuses to learn. So maybe “a dismal failure” is a way of pointing the finger back upon ourselves. And I’d agree with that!
You are most welcome and I mean it when I say I wish there were hundreds more like you. We give the best we can, the best of ourselves to what we believe in, to what we believe can make a difference and help make things better. That is what I have tried to do and to be, not successful 100% of the time by any means. One of my teaching gigs was 2 classes, one in English and one in Public Speaking in a vocational technical school in California preparing students for careers in law enforcement and emergency response teams. Very different from college preparatory courses or college level classes which I also taught in different settings. What I enjoyed most in my years in schools was the engagement with students and peer colleagues, teachers and administrators, evidence that it is relationships that matter. Research has shown that trhe teacher/student relationship is the most critical variable in the education equation.
If more people would read, think independently and make informed decisions based on evidence, we would be less likely to be in the mess we're in currently in many places. We should be able to see and read the signs...and then take appropriate action based on intelligence, yes?
The impact of parents raising their children properly by putting time & effort into it cannot by any means be undervalued! It all starts there!
If you dont have the time and/or are unwilli g to then by any means do not have children.
Pushing that responsibility of a solid bringing up onto a third party is immature and irresponsible.
In the past I thought that the lacking school system was just that - over the years changing my views I am now totally convinced that it is all done on purpose - otherwise, why would any government pay their teachets, who are in charge of prepping the next generation for the overall good and contribution to this country a "minimum wage of $35k?
The same goes for people attending college or university - why do students need to go into debt to begin with? Their tax contributions to the State and country over their life time is so much higher with a degree compared to without one.
Note (from Wikepedia):
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
4 February 1906 – 9 April 1945
was a German Lutheran pastor, neo-orthodox theologian and anti-Nazi dissident who was a key founding member of the Confessing Church. His writings on Christianity's role in the secular world have become widely influential; his 1937 book The Cost of Discipleship is described as a modern classic.[1] Apart from his theological writings, Bonhoeffer was known for his staunch resistance to the Nazi dictatorship, including vocal opposition to Adolf Hitler's euthanasia program and genocidal persecution of the Jews.[2] He was arrested in April 1943 by the Gestapo and imprisoned at Tegel Prison for 1½ years. Later, he was transferred to Flossenbürg concentration camp.
Bonhoeffer was accused of being associated with the 20 July plot to assassinate Hitler and was tried along with other accused plotters, including former members of the Abwehr (the German Military Intelligence Office). He was hanged on 9 April 1945 during the collapse of the Nazi regime.
You are spot on in terms of what is valued by how teachers are regarded. Underfunded, over worked and unrealistic expectations have seen many good teachers leaving the profession.
Parents play a bigger role, at least those parents who care. Sadly, we have a percentage of parents who aren’t particularly adept at good parenting and the kids have some large gaps in civility, compassion and discernment. When school and parents work together in the best interests of children there’s more often a better outcome.
Goodness, Gary, your comments are a lesson in civil discourse. Wouldn’t it be great to be having this discussion in person. I, too, was certified to teach but never went beyond my student teaching to get the degree. I still remember my semester in charge of 7th graders though. And I had visions of starting my own school too. Fun to hear from people who have done it.
Thanks, Katherine. There are many ways to "teach" to share what we have learned with others in the school of living life. One of the fun things, among many, that you would enjoy when starting a new school is the naming. That experience was a fascinating process and the "final" choice was revealing. Place names became a priority in some cases as a mark of identification and when I see the name of a school, I am often curious as to why that rather than something else. Of course, P.S. # 36 doesn't tell a whole lot beyond being a numbered public school in a district.
Nah. An educated person is more likely to abuse you. And the more educated, the more likely. They have power, they are going to use it, and education has never equaled morality.
Yes and I don't mean to go "hard" but why not? You look like you can take it : ) Also there's more wisdom in any one point/counterpoint discussion than a hundred that feature nonstop breathless agreement
I like your "one point/counterpoint discussion" a civil debate between two people who can disagree and remain rational and civil whereas so many attempted conversations with closed or empty minds have few resources or responses other than an overheated emotional response. I'm sure you know the quote from Kipling that begins with "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you,. If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you...." Good stuff, Richard.
Illustrating multiple points here, thank you Richard. Although, from personal experience in bearing witness to way too many kids of abuse, I would challenge the notion that “an educated person is more likely to abuse you.” That being said, an educated person, especially one of means, can hide/cover themselves better thereby having a higher chance of getting away with it. As Gary says: “the manipulators.” Bad actors, through their malevolent actions, are bad actors, period. And the world is all too familiar with brilliant yet evil minds.
I want to like this piece, but I’m hesitating. I’m a semi-retired 33 year public school educator. A couple of questions that surface for me, Gary: 1. Were you/are you a teacher who was charged with the well-being of children, year after year after year? 2. Are you laying blame solely on “the educational system?” Your one sentence makes an attempt to widen the net of responsibility: “It is not only about going to school…” but the second part does lay blame at school house doors: “…although schools have been one of the primary transmitters of culture.” The educational system is exactly that, a system of individuals including teachers, secretaries, the Dept. of Education, Board members, mayors, governors, unions, parents, and kids all in relationship with curriculum, state and local policies, community values, educational standards, absenteeism, health conditions (nutrition, mental health), societal ills (including poverty, racism, bullying), and the whims of the daily obstacles and challenges faced by us all as we get up and get ready to go to school. To lay blame on “the educational system,” is too often code for “blame the teachers.” And we simply cannot do that. When I’m confronted with such narrow viewpoints, I have taken it as a personal obligation to champion the profession I gave my life to, and all those with whom I was privileged to work and who I saw, every day, do heroic things for children in the face of very daunting and daily challenges including the apathy of parents, politicians, and society at large. I do not disagree with your central premise of how we, as a society, have gotten here—I challenge the conclusion that “education,” schools, are the cause. The competition schools face with absentee parenting, the lack of community groups/organizations that used to play a larger role in the raising of our kids (eg churches), the lack of funding, hungry kids, trauma-impacted learners, the malevolent and ubiquitous presence of technology/social media has relegated schools as a much less influential transmitter of societal values. An “educated” person is so much more than what they’ve taken away from all the classrooms they’ve spent time in. Schools are not “dismal failures.” That characterization is better said for where we, as a society, place our values—as long as a community spends billions to build an NFL football stadium, while the elementary school just down the way has to hold fundraisers for basic supplies (and while we debate whether to offer our children a free breakfast), we all, educated and under-educated, need to get to a place where we ask ourselves: “why?”
Thank you, Kert, for your thoughtful response and your good questions. I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you say here, especially the challenges that schools, teachers, administrators, boards and communities face. We could probably have a good conversation about our respective experiences and observations. We might reach different conclusions, maybe not, in the end. I admire and respect your service and dedication to your profession. We need hundreds more like you. I applaud your questioning a society's values and priorities when you see where the billions go to make more billions for owners and players. It's one reason I included the lop-sided economy that is not favoring the underserved.
It's not so much the schools that are at fault but rather the systems that have not changed or schools that have not changed in order to ensure that kids are being served well in their learning experiences and that high standards (not tests) are met. Why would anyone lower standards? Did you ever see Ken Robinson's video, "Changing the Paradigm"? Here it is for your reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
And for now, this: I spent/invested over 60 years in schools of every kind, as a teacher, as an admininstrator, as a board member, as a parent and grandparent and, like you and many others, I spent years preparing to do that when I was a student - actually for me, 24 years in schools from K-12 and beyond. Teachers for me are heros and heroines, some of the best people I have known in a long, challenging, satisfying and rewarding career. I hired some great ones and made a few mistakes too. I helped start several new schools, one public school and two independent schools. And I advised others to redesign their schools already in existence. As you know, it was more than a job, it was a calling. It was a vocation, not an occupation and we could talk more on that another time. Let me say thanks again, Kert, for all that you gave and for what you continue to give.
Thank you Gary for taking my response completely in the spirit in which it was offered! And I completely agree that we would both enjoy a prolonged conversation about this over coffee, for sure, if not a very leisurely dinner. I’m also grateful you didn’t infer my passion to be an ad hominem attack on you. This is another of your traits of the uneducated: “that when one is faced with critical feedback, it is always taken personally,” when, in fact, that may never had been intended. The un(der)-educated are also unskillful in having objective debate on worthy issues. I am grateful for you and your wisdom—and I have learned from you both in the past and with this post too. Someone once said, “Education is what you start getting when you are finally finished with school.” I am led to believe this applies strongly to you, as it does strongly to me. Ultimately, WE each are responsible for the educations we get (seek, have, are given, etc). Not even the best teacher can teach when the student refuses to learn. So maybe “a dismal failure” is a way of pointing the finger back upon ourselves. And I’d agree with that!
And thank you for taking my comments seriously.
You are most welcome and I mean it when I say I wish there were hundreds more like you. We give the best we can, the best of ourselves to what we believe in, to what we believe can make a difference and help make things better. That is what I have tried to do and to be, not successful 100% of the time by any means. One of my teaching gigs was 2 classes, one in English and one in Public Speaking in a vocational technical school in California preparing students for careers in law enforcement and emergency response teams. Very different from college preparatory courses or college level classes which I also taught in different settings. What I enjoyed most in my years in schools was the engagement with students and peer colleagues, teachers and administrators, evidence that it is relationships that matter. Research has shown that trhe teacher/student relationship is the most critical variable in the education equation.
It takes just one teacher to make or break a kid. That is an absolute TRUTH!
If more people would read, think independently and make informed decisions based on evidence, we would be less likely to be in the mess we're in currently in many places. We should be able to see and read the signs...and then take appropriate action based on intelligence, yes?
So well said, Lawrence! So VERY well stated.
The impact of parents raising their children properly by putting time & effort into it cannot by any means be undervalued! It all starts there!
If you dont have the time and/or are unwilli g to then by any means do not have children.
Pushing that responsibility of a solid bringing up onto a third party is immature and irresponsible.
In the past I thought that the lacking school system was just that - over the years changing my views I am now totally convinced that it is all done on purpose - otherwise, why would any government pay their teachets, who are in charge of prepping the next generation for the overall good and contribution to this country a "minimum wage of $35k?
The same goes for people attending college or university - why do students need to go into debt to begin with? Their tax contributions to the State and country over their life time is so much higher with a degree compared to without one.
Note (from Wikepedia):
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
4 February 1906 – 9 April 1945
was a German Lutheran pastor, neo-orthodox theologian and anti-Nazi dissident who was a key founding member of the Confessing Church. His writings on Christianity's role in the secular world have become widely influential; his 1937 book The Cost of Discipleship is described as a modern classic.[1] Apart from his theological writings, Bonhoeffer was known for his staunch resistance to the Nazi dictatorship, including vocal opposition to Adolf Hitler's euthanasia program and genocidal persecution of the Jews.[2] He was arrested in April 1943 by the Gestapo and imprisoned at Tegel Prison for 1½ years. Later, he was transferred to Flossenbürg concentration camp.
Bonhoeffer was accused of being associated with the 20 July plot to assassinate Hitler and was tried along with other accused plotters, including former members of the Abwehr (the German Military Intelligence Office). He was hanged on 9 April 1945 during the collapse of the Nazi regime.
You are spot on in terms of what is valued by how teachers are regarded. Underfunded, over worked and unrealistic expectations have seen many good teachers leaving the profession.
Parents play a bigger role, at least those parents who care. Sadly, we have a percentage of parents who aren’t particularly adept at good parenting and the kids have some large gaps in civility, compassion and discernment. When school and parents work together in the best interests of children there’s more often a better outcome.
Goodness, Gary, your comments are a lesson in civil discourse. Wouldn’t it be great to be having this discussion in person. I, too, was certified to teach but never went beyond my student teaching to get the degree. I still remember my semester in charge of 7th graders though. And I had visions of starting my own school too. Fun to hear from people who have done it.
Thanks, Katherine. There are many ways to "teach" to share what we have learned with others in the school of living life. One of the fun things, among many, that you would enjoy when starting a new school is the naming. That experience was a fascinating process and the "final" choice was revealing. Place names became a priority in some cases as a mark of identification and when I see the name of a school, I am often curious as to why that rather than something else. Of course, P.S. # 36 doesn't tell a whole lot beyond being a numbered public school in a district.
Nah. An educated person is more likely to abuse you. And the more educated, the more likely. They have power, they are going to use it, and education has never equaled morality.
Yes, we see those too, the manipulators. Classic examples are public servants not serving the public, mostly themselves.
Yes and I don't mean to go "hard" but why not? You look like you can take it : ) Also there's more wisdom in any one point/counterpoint discussion than a hundred that feature nonstop breathless agreement
I like your "one point/counterpoint discussion" a civil debate between two people who can disagree and remain rational and civil whereas so many attempted conversations with closed or empty minds have few resources or responses other than an overheated emotional response. I'm sure you know the quote from Kipling that begins with "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you,. If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you...." Good stuff, Richard.
Illustrating multiple points here, thank you Richard. Although, from personal experience in bearing witness to way too many kids of abuse, I would challenge the notion that “an educated person is more likely to abuse you.” That being said, an educated person, especially one of means, can hide/cover themselves better thereby having a higher chance of getting away with it. As Gary says: “the manipulators.” Bad actors, through their malevolent actions, are bad actors, period. And the world is all too familiar with brilliant yet evil minds.
When I met Elie Wiesel in 1980 one evening, he said to a small group of us,
"If you want to know what evil is, put a face on it." And I love Richard's comment alluding to "nonstop breathless agreement."